Social Media Club No Longer Welcomed at MyRagan
May 22, 2007 by Chris Heuer
Since I have received a few emails from some members already, let me just say I am disappointed that Mark Ragan has decided to take this action. I have setup Social Media Club groups on Facebook, LinkedIn, Ning and many other social networking sites, so that members who use those services can come together to further the goals of the club. Mark invited me to create a group on his “myspace” clone a few weeks ago, and even invited me to promote our Workshop through it.
Since becoming the largest group on MyRagan, Mark has apparently changed his mind, because the group (and my profile) was represented by the Social Media Club logo. His post to the group (which he deleted after my response to this message) read:
We are recreating the Social Media Club tomorrow and re-naming it to read simply: Social Media Tools and Strategies.
The current logo for the club is giving the impression that we are somehow selling this space to an advertiser. We are not. These groups are designed as non-commercial places where free discussion can flow without fear of being pitched.
Your moderator will be Ragan editor Bill Sweetland.
Because we are changing the name of the club, you will all have to join it again. But, as you know, this only takes a few seconds. Look forward to seeing you back here soon.
Mark Ragan
CEO
MyRagan.com
There is more to say about this of course, but for now, just wanted to let you know that if you want to talk more about this, please join the main Social Media Club mailing list or of course, comment here. I wish I could still have the message I sent in reply to him, but since it was deleted before the conversation could even begin, it is lost. I am sure I was not overly polite in it, but I was definitely speaking to the truth of the situation. This is apparently not a MySpace clone at all - it now just seems like a social network established for the purpose of selling Ragan rather than serving the interests of the community as he originally told me.
Truth is though, it is his site and his rules so he can do what he wants with it and there is nothing to do about it except leave. We will simply take our conversation elsewhere and I will move on so we don’t waste anymore energy on such things…
truth is, it may be his site but it’s your intellectual property that he has no right to delete or modify without your consent (unless otherwise explicitly stated in the ToS).
Ed
Holy crickey! Wow, yes, I can imagine you might have been a bit irritated.
Imagine this in a personal context: “Jake, you’ve gotten too much traffic, therefore I have renamed your profile to ‘Mark’, and I’m not going to be you.”
No thanks.
[...] Dan York advised me and some of our colleagues and friends of a post by a group founder, Chris Heuer, wherein the ‘Social Media Club’ has been renamed to ‘Social Media Tools and Strategies’. [...]
We shouldn’t be surprised by Mark Ragan’s action. It’s his space. And it’s a closed space that is branded with the Ragan name.
But at the same time, Mark Ragan shouldn’t be surprised if those of us who believe that social media is founded on the spirit of generosity point out that Mark Ragan has demonstrated that his commitment to the community is defined by commercial considerations.
Too bad.
[...] Word from Chris Heuer that Mark Ragan has shut down the Social Media Club group in My Ragan and replaced it with the lame-sounding “Social Media Tools and Strategies” group, started by … Mark Ragan. [...]
I would like to see Mark respond directly in this comment thread.
My initial take: if Chris didn’t explicitly violate the terms of service, then this is a bad, bad move by MyRagan, and I’m inclined to take my social networking with business communicators elsewhere.
Mark, please give us your take!
Wow talk about a case of “you’re more popular than I am, so you’re not my friend anymore”. Pity.
What a very, very strange turn of events. I can’t imagine what they must have been thinking to do something like this. If there had been some kind of ToS violation, then action of some kind would have been understandable - but the stated rationale, that the SMC logo was somehow conveying an impression of an ad-sponsored space, well that’s just plain wrong-headed. Most bizarre. Can’t wait to see what Mark Ragan has to say about this - assuming he’s going to say something.
I was troubled last night when I read Mark Ragan’s notice that he would be deleting the Social Media Club group today, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt, thinking he had perhaps corresponded privately with you about it. Evidently that was not the case.
If there had been a real concern that the SMC logo implied “other advertisers” could “buy” space on MyRagan, all he had to do was ask you to change the group’s profile photo. Instead, the group was shut down and you were replaced as moderator.
That does not speak well at all to Mark Ragan’s commitment to the free flow of discussion or the principles of social media. Turns out that “My”Ragan isn’t “mine” at all. I’m not at all motivated to participate if popular groups, which have not violated the terms of service, can be arbitrarily deleted.
Connie - for the record - Mark did email me, to my email account on the MyRagan site late last week. I saw it over the weekend (SUNDAY) and replied to him asking for clarifications as it made no sense to me what he was saying. (unfortunately all those emails, as well as my connections I was making on the site are deleted - the email also came from user FRANK123, but was signed Mark). In one of the several emails Mark sent to me today after I wrote him through regular email (or “private email” as Mark calls it), he said that because I did not respond to him, he thought I had abandoned the group and was no longer interested in it (though I had just responded to Lee Hopkins group message and several others).
C’est la vie. I have enough other challenges at the moment than to be dealing with BS like this. At least there is a lesson to be learned here on a scale that may prevent other’s from making the same silly mistakes next time. I am more prone to heed Mark’s request to “just leave him alone” and would had I not just seen his final insult via email today:
“Just saw your post with its distortions and lies, its omissions and half truths.
Of course I expected nothing less from you at this juncture.
For my part, I intend to take the high road and let your lies go unanswered. Fire away, Chris. You seem to have nothing else to do.
You are truly a vindictive, jealous man. I feel sorry for you.
Mark ”
LOL - would be ROFL, but for someone in his position to write such things to me, when I have not even told the parts of the story that makes him look bad, is just absurd. That is really the high road Mark - try to belittle me and make wild accusations in your own reality distortion field…
I do feel sorry for him, as I have certainly had occasion to stick my own foot in my mouth by being overly emotional in email previously, but this is supposed be an industry heavyweight, and I expect better from a seasoned communications veteran.
[...] Are PR online networks a good idea? Posted in Public Relations by Heather Yaxley on the May 23rd, 2007 Lee Hopkins picks up on a “kerfuffle” (or flame war) between those behind the Social Media Club and MyRagan. [...]
[...] I went in and started searching to see who all I knew on the site. To my surprise, I found quite a few PR professionals that I work with and respect on the site. I took a look at their Forum and they had some great information as well. Of course with anything, I have heard some discouraging remarks about the site. Regardless, I’ve decided to give it a shot. Anything else I should check out on the site? I’m sure it will take me awhile to figure out all the interesting areas of the site. [...]
I was interested to note - given this conversation - that Ragan is ‘paying per click’ on Google search for the term ’social media club.’ Looks like an organisation trying to have its cake, and eat it too.
To be fair, you were using that as advertising. You are not a non-profit, you’re a club with due paying members and you are making money off of events you hold (see banner on this sites sidebar).
Regardless of the other issues, any publicity you receive for the Club from piggy-backing on social networking sites is free advertising for your product (i.e. join the Club and pay us dues/ attend our events). This doesn’t negate your goals or the discussion, but it is something to consider when weighing the different sides of the argument.
Ronna - thank you - I noticed that too - someone over there is certainly looking at us as competitors, which may be part of the real reason behind this move, but I doubt we will ever know.
Tamera - Mark invited me in to promote the club and promote our workshops, I have never denied this. To use his exact words in an email exchange I had with Mark Ragan directly
“To answer your question, yes. I want you to use my “MySpace clone” to tell my users about your seminars. Hell, I will help you do it, if you like. You know why? Because I am serving the same people you are serving. Why wouldn’t I want them to know about what you have to offer. I don’t fear you. ”
So yes, it was additional promotion for the workshop - we need to get the word out and promote a real education on this subjet matter from people who really know how to do it right. It would be nice to make a living at this, but I have not and no longer expect to.
More importantly, we offer open (free) membership as well as paid membership. In another post I made today, expressed that we will most likely become a non profit trade association that will be member owned - but ultimately that is up to the community.
“Social” spaces, where those old beasts like popularity and coolness and cliques and such still exist.
Very odd. “You are dressed too nice.” xD
[...] Ahh, it’s just like the holidays around the social networking world these days. Excitement about the “next new thing” (Ragan Communications’ MyRagan.com), anticipation about the “next, next new thing” (Melcrum’s Communicators’ Network), and a spat that leaves everyone hurt, disappointed and wondering where the love went. [...]
[...] Could the real reason that they deleted the Social Media Club group on My Ragan be because they were about to start heavily promoting the site and selling their educational events and did not want to have the largest group on the site be from someone they view as a competitor? Funny thing Mark, you said, and your own Blogger Dave Murray quoted you on this, that you would help me promote the club and our workshop through your site. Mark Ragan said at that time, referring to me and Social Media Club, “I don’t fear you”. How should people interpret your words and actions Mark? [...]
[...] Mark Ragan sent me another email regarding the removal of the Social Media Club group from MyRagan. (Background to this can be found here, here, here and here.) [...]